Tuesday, June 20, 2017

Charles Camosy's Response to My Review of Beyond The Abortion Wars

By Sherry F. Colb

In Horizons, a journal published by Cambridge University Press, I have a review of Charles Camosy's book, Beyond the Abortion Wars: A Way Forward For a New Generation. After the various reviews of his book, Professor Camosy provides responses to each one. Because I think his response to my review inaccurately represents my review, I wanted to take the opportunity here to reply to his response.

Just so that readers have some idea of what this is all about, Camosy's book proposes that we can get beyond debates about abortion if we incorporate the majority's view of the procedure: prohibit most abortions but allow some, including those necessary to save a woman's life and those where the pregnancy has resulted from rape, the latter of which would be allowed if the abortion is a failure-to-aid termination (such as a medical abortion) rather than an abortion involving direct violence to the fetus. He also proposes greater government financial and other support for pregnant women and mothers, a proposal that I applaud. There is more to it, of course, but this is a rough overview.

In my review, I discuss the sentience criterion for moral consideration, an idea Michael Dorf and I develop more extensively in Beating Hearts: Abortion and Animal Rights, where we suggest that abortions taking place after fetal sentience are morally problematic in a way that pre-sentience abortions are not. With this setup, here is my response to Camosy's review.

Professor Camosy very early in his response (171) proposes that my criteria for personhood--having interests in avoiding pain and death--might exclude newborn babies from the class of those entitled to live. This is because "Peter Singer and an increasing number of other thinkers" contend that newborn babies have no interest in avoiding death. (171) Camosy quickly acknowledges that I actually reject Singer's position on infanticide but then incorrectly asserts that my rejection rests on a speciesist premise (one that arbitrarily distinguishes humans from other species). He states that "[i]n other work Colb has made it clear she rejects Singer's position on infanticide because being a member of the species Homo Sapiens is enough for such sentient-but-not-self-aware beings to have full moral and legal status."

I do not know why Camosy believes that I make humanity a relevant consideration to granting moral (or legal) status. Nowhere in any of my work do I rest a sentient being's status on his or her membership in our species and nowhere do I imply that "self-awareness" is a prerequisite to moral status outside the human species. Camosy is accordingly wrong when he infers that "for Colb it appears a 'someone' is (1) a being with interests in avoiding pain and death or (2) a being with interests in avoiding pain and also a member of the species Homo Sapiens." Quite to the contrary, I have made clear in my work that the interest in avoiding death goes hand in hand with the ability to have subjective experiences. In Beating Hearts, Dorf and I say that "[w]hat grounds the moral intuition that we should not kill people.... [is] simply that people have lives that belong to them.... Sentient animals' lives belong to them" as well. No more, then, is required for moral consideration than sentience. Because Camosy misconstrues my criteria for inclusion in the moral community, he goes on to identify "problems" with the view that I do not espouse, including the notion that I arbitrarily "invok[e] biological species membership."

In another place in his response, Camosy expresses disappointment in my "fallaciously" labeling his "argument for the moral status of the fetus" antifeminist. (172) He responds that pregnancy is a relational status where an individualist focus is not warranted, and he then accuses me of resting my arguments on "the disease model of pregnancy," which he regards as patriarchal for treating a uniquely female status as abnormal.

I would not suggest that arguing for a fetus's moral status is necessarily antifeminist, but I do take issue with Camosy's particular way of making the argument. But first things first. The way Camosy argues for a fetus's moral status is profoundly speciesist, and it is worth dwelling upon why, given that he (falsely) accuses me of speciesism.

Camosy takes great pains to avoid having the moral status of a being rest on its attributes right now, such as its currently having or lacking the capacity to feel pain (a capacity that fetuses acquire relatively late in pregnancy). He does this, as I explain, because to grant moral status on the basis of a currently-existing characteristic like sentience would open the door to acknowledging the moral personhood of sentient nonhuman animals. As I quote in my review, Camosy asks rhetorically, "Are you willing to say that any being that feels pain is a person with a right to life? Dogs? Pigs? Chickens? Rats and mice?" (48) His answer is no, so he comes up with what I will explain is an antifeminist argument for why only humans (including human fetuses) qualify for a right to life. My answer is yes, animals count, so I do not need to search for a different criterion than current sentience. Camosy, however, does need such a criterion, because he has a speciesist agenda--to exclude dogs, pigs, etc., from personhood (stating that claiming personhood for such animals is a "strange claim[] that almost no one wishes to accept." (48))

How, then, does Camosy solve the problem of identifying a criterion for personhood that will include human fetuses but exclude far more capable nonhuman animals? He says (49) that a fetus has the potential to be what nonhuman animals cannot be (e.g., someone with the ability to create and appreciate art, an ability that--incidentally--not all adult humans possess). But don't sperm cells and eggs have this potential too? Camosy maintains that an embryo, unlike sperm cells and eggs, do not have to undergo a "nature-changing event" to become a human. (51) This claim is antifeminist in that it treats pregnancy as an insignificant part of what it takes to create a human being. In reality, pregnancy is very much a "nature-changing event," which one could easily see if one focused on the difference between an embryo and a baby (great) versus between an egg and sperm and an embryo (minimal). Camosy thus treats pregnancy as a passive non-event where embryos "only require energy and the right environment to express their potential to become the kind of thing they already are." (51-52) In truth, pregnancy is an active process that profoundly alters an embryo through hard work.

In the course of discussing feminism and pregnancy, Camosy accuses me of adopting a "disease" model of pregnancy. I do adopt this model of unwanted pregnancy, not pregnancy in general. Since we are talking about abortion in this exchange, my "exclusive" references to pregnancy as an extreme burden and intrusion on the woman are understandable because that is precisely what an unwanted pregnancy--the sort of pregnancy for which someone seeks an abortion--is. Like the distinction between consensual sex and rape, there is all the difference in the world between a pregnancy that a woman wants to experience and one that she wishes to terminate. A woman experiences the latter as an extreme intrusion upon her bodily integrity. By saying this, I am no more adopting a disease model of pregnancy than I would be adopting a trauma model of sex by suggesting that rape is traumatic.

Camosy concludes his response to my review by critiquing my view that the law cannot protect fetuses without unduly affecting the rights of women. He responds that countries that ban abortion have good maternal health. This claim is not responsive to my point. I was not suggesting that prohibiting abortion would negatively affect the physical health of mothers. I was proposing instead that when the law protects fetuses and embryos from their mothers by prohibiting women from terminating an unwanted pregnancy, it compels people to remain in a state of pregnancy against their will, and this compulsion represents an unwarranted incursion on bodily integrity, one that is undesirable in a free society, even if we believe that some abortions are morally wrong.

17 comments:

Joe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bob Hockett said...


My goodness, did this fellow even (really) READ your review??

tripledomer said...

Hi Sherry...I have to teach in about 30 minutes so I don't have time to respond to everything you wrote here. But I'm genuinely bewildered about your main response here to the speciesism charge. In explaining why you don't follow Singer down the infanticide line of reasoning you explicitly say (p 31) that is it "favoritism" of the human species. Right? What am I missing here? The fact that newborn human infants happen to belong to the species Homo sapiens, again, unless I'm misreading something, is doing all of the moral and legal work here.

I'm more than happy to have my reading of your defense of the moral and legal status of newborn human infants corrected, and will write more later in respond to your other points...

Joe said...

It seems that you need permission to read the article.

I posted a comment but think I should read the full review and reply before making any judgements there. So deleted it.

"Camosy's book proposes that we can get beyond debates about abortion if we incorporate the majority's view of the procedure: prohibit most abortions but allow some, including those necessary to save a woman's life and those where the pregnancy has resulted from rape, the latter of which would be allowed if the abortion is a failure-to-aid termination (such as a medical abortion) rather than an abortion involving direct violence to the fetus."

My understanding of "the majority's view" is that they don't actually want to "prohibit" most abortions. To the degree they morally oppose them, though constitutional rights don't turn on that alone, the two criteria listed here is a too restrictive summary. "Including" does suggest some unclear additional criteria.

But, my understanding is that public in actual practice has an open-ended and often subjective "special circumstances" rule. And, even there, views are more liberal in certain areas of the country that are quite populous. I don't think allowing NY and CA to broadly allow what many deem murder (or disallow them from doing what many think is basic control of a woman's body) will get us "beyond" debate.

The misunderstanding alleged here is rather telling too.

David Ricardo said...

Being unable to access the review I cannot comment directly on it and Ms. Colb’s response. But I can ask the question as to why the abortion discussion does not revolve around a rational thought process and instead delves into areas that are neither related directly to the abortion rights issue nor necessary to reach common ground. (Before proceeding I would note that the answer to this question is that the discussion often hinges on emotional rather than rational position).

Ms. Colb in her post here touches on the critical issue.

“ I do adopt this model of unwanted pregnancy, not pregnancy in general. Since we are talking about abortion in this exchange, my "exclusive" references to pregnancy as an extreme burden and intrusion on the woman are understandable because that is precisely what an unwanted pregnancy--the sort of pregnancy for which someone seeks an abortion--is.”

So if one understands that abortion is a reaction to an ‘unwanted’ pregnancy and one understands that abortion is a difficult choice for a woman and not something done lightly or enthusiastically but rather reluctantly, then the rational person would say the critical question is ‘how can we prevent abortions?”.

The question is not difficult to answer. Today we have the technology to prevent unwanted pregnancies to the high 90’s percentage wise. But we do not take advantage of the obvious solution because (1) not all women are familiar with the contraceptive alternatives, (2) government is at best neutral with respect to making contraceptive information available and in many cases works to prevent knowledge of contraception and availability and (3) for some individuals contraception is contrary to religious principals.

Obviously the first two problems above are easily and inexpensively solvable. We do not lack the knowledge or the means, only the will. With respect to the third issue, religious preferences, while respecting the rights of any citizen to hold any religious position he or she desires, I would ask of them “Is contraception equally sinful or as unacceptable as abortion?” Really, it seems to those of us who does not adopt the anti-contraception position that those who do so equate contraception with abortion. That seems wrong, illogical, irrational and a factor in causing more rather than less abortions.

But of course if a person does not support abortion rights and opposes the use of contraception than that person cannot have an unwanted pregnancy and will not have an abortion. And that is fine, that is their choice and they are free to make it. But those individuals do not stop there. They attempt to force their anti-contraception position on those who do not believe contraception is immoral or a sin. And so I would repeat the last sentence of the previous paragraph. That seems wrong, illogical, irrational and a factor in causing more rather than less abortions.

That abortion rights is such a divisive issue in America is the result of often blind emotional thinking, and not the desire to reduce abortions to their lowest possible number. Who prevents more abortions each year, the Planned Parenthood clinics or the people aligned with Hobby Lobby and their similarly minded organizations?

tripledomer said...

Hi David...the relationship between family planning and abortion is complicated. Correlation isn't causation, but states with more contraception and family planning actually have higher rates of abortion than do states without it: https://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/there-is-no-pro-life-case-for-planned-parenthood/

If we had Europe's abortion rate we'd still have 700,000 abortions every year. The lower rate is probably less about contraception (which requires abortion as the fail-safe...and often leads to more risky sex) and more about social support for women, but there isn't hard data that can make the definitive case.

What we can be definitive about is that countries like Ireland, Poland, and Chile can protect and support both mothers and their prenatal children with the law. The law is a teacher, and it can and should teach that even prenatal children are not mere clumps of cells, but the next vulnerable, voiceless population to have equal protection of the laws.

Joe said...

What we can be definitive about is that countries like Ireland, Poland, and Chile can protect and support both mothers and their prenatal children with the law.

Experience in Latin America shows that bans don't stop abortions and they won't here. We can still support mothers and embryos/fetuses with the law in various ways.
Calling a three or six week embryo etc. a "child" isn't going to stop any debates.

Anyway, Jimmy Carter in a recent book of his said he personally opposes abortion but used the Latin America abortion rate in part to say he personally didn't think the best policy was to criminalize abortion. This is the general sentiment of the population, though they support various types of restrictions.

The law is a teacher, and it can and should teach that even prenatal children are not mere clumps of cells, but the next vulnerable, voiceless population to have equal protection of the laws.

If you want to teach, don't use strawmen. The average person does not think an embryo or fetus is a "mere clump of cells." Nonetheless, if a twenty year old determines she is not ready to be a mother, they don't want to force her to give birth to the growing embryo or fetus inside of her, especially if she uses an abortion pill or has an early medical abortion.

Prof. Colb argues that the dividing line is a certain degree of consciousness. This doesn't mean a sixteen week old fetus is merely a "clump of cells." It's clear that there is a dispute here on line drawing, on what "equal protection" in relevant sense means. Or, what bodily automony means -- it is not a violation of "equal protection" even to harm a full person if that person threatens my well being. We know the arguments. We can all spin the labels our way.

But, "mere clump of cells" is usage of buzzwords in an unproductive way even if some on one side ill advisedly uses such language.

David Ricardo said...

The relationship between family planning and abortion rates is not complicated. Greater access to contraception and more knowledge about birth control will reduce abortions. From the Denver Post

"The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists endorsed making oral contraceptives available over the counter in 2012, saying women were able to “self-screen” for problems and that seeing a doctor was an unnecessary obstacle for most women. A University of California at San Francisco study found that unintended pregnancies could be reduced by up to 25 percent if oral contraception was available over the counter."

Initial reports out of Colorado which made birth control much more accessible than other states were very positive. From an NPR report in 2015

"The Colorado Family Planning Initiative provided low-income women with IUDs and other implants at 68 clinics across the state. The program has been funded by an anonymous donor for the past five years.

The statistics: From 2009 to 2013, the teen birth rate dropped by 40% in Colorado. The teen abortion rate in counties served by the 68 clinics went down by 35% from 2009 to 2012. It all added up to a savings of $42.5 million of public funds in 2010 alone, according to the state."

Prevention of an unwanted pregnancy is the possible prevention of an abortion. Prevention of an unwanted pregnancy through safe contraception is all positive and no negative. It is that simple.

Shag from Brookline said...

Thanks, Joe and David. Underlying much of the abortion question is the opposition to contraception. Propagation is important to survival here on earth. If those opposed to abortion as well as contraception were prepared to address the needs, the rights of all children born with the basics of a good life, including contributing through taxes and otherwise to make sure those needs, rights are actually provided, then they may better be able to make their moral case. But that's not been America's of the rest of the world's histories. And there remains the matter of a woman having control over her own body, particularly with what they perceive as their health issues as well as the economics of their situations with a society that may be reluctant to make sure the needs, rights of those born are addressed. We've got too much poverty. It's not the fault of the innocent child that is born. That innocent child's needs, rights have to be addressed by society, usually via government.

Control over one's body also applies to men. At age 86, I have aging ailments requiring medical attention and treatment. I'm beyond the three score and ten biblical gauge. Certain recommendations are made by my docs that I challenge on the basis of my considerations of quality of life, my life, issues. I'm free to make my decisions for purposes of my health. Women should have the same right. But society still has the role to make sure the needs, rights of the innocent children that are born are provided for. Let's try to reduce poverty and protect innocent children.

Joe said...

"Prevention of an unwanted pregnancy through safe contraception is all positive and no negative. It is that simple."

The concern is that if you promote sexual freedom, more people will have sex, and in a more unregulated way that many deem immoral. It is somewhat talking past each other to consider this "all positive," since it is a question of what is positive.

The specific debate is how contraception decreases abortion rates, but contraception is a good thing for a variety of reasons, including general health and gender equality. Reference was made to a link arguing "states with more contraception and family planning actually have higher rates of abortion than do states without it." Various factors are involved in such things. For example, the op-ed references conservative states that regardless are likely to have less abortions than other places. A place like Colorado very well might show more movement. OTOH, some think IUD are abortifacients. Misguided or not.

But, I doubt we are going to in a few comments settle the matter.

David Ricardo said...

The comment

“The concern is that if you promote sexual freedom, more people will have sex, and in a more unregulated way that many deem immoral. It is somewhat talking past each other to consider this "all positive," since it is a question of what is positive.”

goes to the heart of the matter here.

In a free society what possible right does anyone have to label another’s sexual behavior as ‘immoral’ (assuming the parties are in a harmless consensual relationship). This issue arises only when one group of people believes that they are the moral arbiters of society and have the right through government coercion and regulation to control the private behavior of others. That is not anything ‘positive’, it is tyranny.

But it does explain the opposition to contraception, as contraception may well promote sexual freedom which a portion of society deems negative. But just calling some immoral or negative does not make it so. The abortion rights issue and the family planning issue is in part fueled by a large portion of the male population and a small but significant portion of the female population who believe women should not control their own bodies, and that becomes the common thread that links anti-abortion rights and anti-contraception. It is anti-feminism at its zenith. And as Shag points out, there is really no concern for human life here as the anti-abortions rights groups which claim to support the unborn mostly oppose programs which promote the health and well being of the born.

Agreed, we are not going to settle the matter in a few comments. But we can ask for consistency and rationality in the discussion by opponents of abortion rights. For the most part that is just not present.

Sherry F. Colb said...

I want to respond to Charlie's reference to page 31 of Beating Hearts, where, he suggested in his comment that Michael and I embrace the notion that species is what makes infanticide impermissible. We do not embrace that notion at all. Here's the long quote:

"We agree with Singer's main point here. A fetus lacks interests before it attains sentience, and thus abortion cannot be a wrong to a fetus (or embryo or zygote) before the fetus (or embryo or zygote) attains sentience. We likewise agree with Singer that once one recognizes that sentience grounds interests, there is no reason other than species favoritism to deny that sentient nonhumans (like chickens, pigs, and calves) have interests that, for many purposes, are no different from those of sentient fetuses. Accordingly, we share Singer's conclusion that if abortion is wrong because of the harm it inflicts on sentient fetuses, then killing nonhuman sentient animals is similarly wrong."

That last sentence makes clear that we oppose the species favoritism that would deny sentient nonhumans the right not to be killed while extending that right only to humans. We therefore believe that whatever judgment we make about the morality of abortion of sentient fetuses must be extended to the killing of nonhuman sentient animals as well.

Where Charlie comes to the conclusion that we do embrace favoritism is the next paragraph, the paragraph that comes after we have specifically said that it is equally wrong to harm a sentient fetus and to harm a sentient nonhuman animal. We say the following:

"We would, however, note an important reservation. In the passage we have quoted, Singer could be read to say that humans are obligated to extend the same consideration to all sentient beings with comparable capacities. We think that view --which appears to implement Singer's categorical declaration in Animal Liberation that "[a]ll animals are equal"--fails to capture what we believe to be the permissible place for favoritism both within and between different species. It is in fact possible to recognize the sentience criterion without insisting that we many never favor members of our own species (or of some other species, for that matter)."

In this paragraph, we are saying that sometimes, favoritism between or among species is permissible. We are not saying that such favoritism is always allowed. We clarify later in the book that favoritism is permissible when one is engaged in supererogatory actions (like giving aid to someone in need or saving someone from a burning building) but not when one is engaged in inflicting harm. For that reason, you can choose to spend money on your dog's surgery and not donate money to some human's necessary surgery, thereby favoring a member of your family over a stranger, or you can rescue a human rather than a cat from a burning building, or you can rescue a young person rather than an old person from that building. In these cases, we are not specifically endorsing speciesism. We are saying that it is permissible to prefer based on species or family membership or some other criterion when we are conferring extra benefits that we do not owe, but we may not do so in deciding whether to inflict violence. That means we can no more kill another person's child than we can our own, even though we can favor our children when it comes to giving gifts or paying for extra treats.

tripledomer said...

Hi Sherry...thank you for responding, but I'm afraid I still don't understand your position on the moral status and treatment of the newborn infant. Perhaps it my limitation, so I hope you don't mind my exploring the issues in more detail.

I assumed (perhaps wrongly?) that your "important reservation" about Singer's work was directed to, at least in part, his infamous defense of infanticide and claims that we ought to treat human infants the same as other animals with similar capacities. I took you to be rejecting this position because, in your view, it is simply acceptable to "favor" those "of our own species" in such a case.

(Whether or not you were specifically responding to Singer on infanticide, your claim that we can licitly favor Homo sapiens, even when the consideration is an interest that is lesser than or equal to the interest of a non-human animal, is precisely the kind of specieism I'm criticizing in my respond to your review. As you say above, it is permissible to prefer to rescue the non-human animal over the equally sentient non-human animal from a burning building. So, it turns out, "being human" does matter a lot more to your view that is does to me. My view is that biological species membership has virtually no moral value at all. What matters is *metaphysical* species membership. I take very, very seriously the claim that other animals may in fact be persons in an article titled
Other Animals as Persons--a Roman Catholic Inquiry http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/animals-as-religious-subjects-9780567015648/)

But the main issue, at least when it comes to my criticism of your view, is not whether your invoking of species favoritism here was specifically an attempt to respond to Singer's defense of infanticide. Instead, I hope I can respectfully press the issue apart from that question. How is it that human persons are morally permitted to prefer the interests of human infants when the interests at stake are less than or equal to the interests at stake for of an equally sentient non-human animal? Unless I'm missing something, you are simply forced to say, "Because human animals get to discriminate on the basis of biological species."

"Why?" a critic might ask. And you seem to be forced to say, "Well, they just do. We aren't utilitarians when it comes to this stuff." And, there we have it, "being human" turns out to matter quite a bit more for your point of view than it does for mine. Again, it is the only thing which permits you to say that a human newborn infant may, in moral action, be preferred to a bee or a squirrel.

Charlie

Shag from Brookline said...

Charlie's closing sentence at his 8:27 PM begins with this:

"The law is a teacher, and it can and should teach that ... "

suggests the imposition of morality with the enactment of law. Like beauty, morality can be in the eye of the beholder. How has that worked in our world, sectarians over secularists?

Michael C. Dorf said...

Charlie: It seems to me that we have a wall of mutual incomprehension here. Sherry and I say in the book--and Sherry repeats above--that we think that sentience, not species, grounds a right to moral consideration. That's true for ALL sentient beings, including human adults, infants, and mid-to-late-pregnancy fetuses, as well as most reasonably complex animals. Full stop. Nowhere do we say anything like the view you attribute to us: that "human animals get to discriminate on the basis of biological species"--EXCEPT insofar as human animals get to discriminate on all sorts of otherwise illicit bases when it comes to engaging in supererogatory acts, including, as in Sherry's examples in the comment, family membership and age. Indeed, in Sherry's comment she specifically notes that it's morally permissible to prefer one's own dog to a human stranger in rendering affirmative aid--as people do ALL THE TIME when, for example, they spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on veterinary care for their pet dogs, cats, or iguanas rather than paying for medical care for human strangers in the developing world or even human strangers in their own community. In saying that, we are not engaging in speciesism in favor of dogs, cats, or iguanas as against humans; we are making a point about the difference between moral duties of non-harm and the supererogatory nature of affirmative aid.

But all of the foregoing was, I would have thought, clear from the book and from Sherry's comment. At this point, I think we would do best to end this public mutual failure to understand one another asynchronously and cheerfully agree to have an in-person conversation to clarify our respective positions when we see you in the fall in Colorado. I very much look forward to that meeting.

Joe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe said...

In a free society what possible right does anyone have to label another’s sexual behavior as ‘immoral’ (assuming the parties are in a harmless consensual relationship).

The "harmless consensual" proviso is doing a lot of work there. It very well might be argued that the basis of morality is just that.

But, in a free society, the government has a limited realm of valid power. There is still a range of things that are "immoral" such as let's say being mean to your parents. So, yes, there is some rightful concern about morality beyond what the government should do.

I think "anti-abortions rights groups which claim to support the unborn mostly oppose programs which promote the health and well being of the born" is sadly true in various cases. The reasons as noted are often problematic. The more insightful, imho, anti-abortion types [insert your cause here] have a better sense of perspective.

There is room for agreement even when the other side is misguided. I would repeat this is why I was particularly concerned with the "clump of cells" strawman.

5:33 PM Delete