Wednesday, October 31, 2007

Waterboarding: It depends on what the meaning of "present" is

We now appear to know why Judge Mukasey has been so cagey about answering the question of whether waterboarding is torture or otherwise illegal: He fears that saying yes could open the door to criminal and/or civil liability for current and former Bush Administration officials who conducted or authorized waterboarding. But is that fear reasonable?

As the latest NY Times story notes, U.S. law now provides a good faith defense to charges of illegal interrogation. In particular, the Detainee Treatment Act provides in relevant part:
In any civil action or criminal prosecution against an officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent of the United States Government who is a United States person, arising out of the officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent's engaging in specific operational practices, that involve detention and interrogation of aliens who the President or his designees have determined are believed to be engaged in or associated with international terrorist activity that poses a serious, continuing threat to the United States, its interests, or its allies, and that were officially authorized and determined to be lawful at the time that they were conducted, it shall be a defense that such officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent did not know that the practices were unlawful and a person of ordinary sense and understanding would not know the practices were unlawful. Good faith reliance on advice of counsel should be an important factor, among others, to consider in assessing whether a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known the practices to be unlawful.
If Judge Mukasey were really just concerned about protecting personnel who engaged in past acts of waterboarding, he could say something like the following: I have not yet seen all of the relevant classified documents, but based on the publicly available accounts of what waterboarding consists in, I would conclude that it is illegal. At the very least it appears to be "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" in violation of international and domestic law, even if it does not rise to the level of torture. However, U.S. personnel reading the "Bybee memo" and other official documents could have reasonably concluded that waterboarding was legal, and under the DTA, that conclusion could be sufficient to shield them from criminal or civil liability. In any event, I do not want to pre-judge the matter of what, if any, legal action should be pursued by the Justice Department until I have all the facts in hand, nor do I want to be understood to be giving an official interpretation that could be used in a proceeding in a foreign country exercising universal jurisdiction. I will say that based on my best current judgment, waterboarding is illegal now, and prospectively I would not give the Justice Department's approval to the practice.


The fact that Judge Mukasey was unwilling to make a statement of that sort suggests that perhaps his concern is not solely with past waterboarding but also with future cases. Indeed, this is hardly mere speculation. Judge Mukasey, in answering one of the Senate's written questions, wrote:
I would not want any uninformed statement of mine made during a confirmation process to present our own professional interrogators in the field, who must perform their duty under the most stressful conditions, or those charged with reviewing their conduct, with a perceived threat that any conduct of theirs, past or present, that was based on authorizations supported by the Department of Justice could place them in personal legal jeopardy.
In referring to "past or present" instances of waterboarding, presumably Mukasey did not have in mind just those instances, if any, of waterboarding that were occurring at exactly the moment that he was writing out his answers. In other words, he pretty clearly meant that he didn't want U.S. personnel to worry about liability for past or future waterboarding. This sort of wordplay---using "present" to mean "future" but in a way that isn't at first obvious---almost makes me nostalgic for the purported memory lapses and bald-faced lies of Alberto Gonzales. Almost.


Posted by Mike Dorf

29 comments:

Craig J. Albert said...

Don't "Judge" Me

Let's stop calling him "Judge" Mukasey, for Heaven's sake. He's not a judge, and trading on that honorific treads the ethical line, as expressed in the opinions of several states' ethics boards and an informal ABA opinion.

Mukasey's a private lawyer who gave up a pretty cushy lifetime federal appointment that I don't think I would ever retire from unless there were a really compelling reason. The only purpose in constantly referring to him as "Judge" is to convey the impression that he's somehow more impartial, more learned or has more oomph than other stiffs who bill by the hour. He's not any of those things, and the job he's looking for is a decidedly partisan job in which he represents the interests of the government in court and oversees its main law enforcement agency.

There are plenty of lawyers who try trade on the honorific, but that doesn't make it right. Call him "Mr.", because by framing the issue in terms of his proponents' language, you're already conceding him a big portion of the debate.

Howard Wasserman said...

Something has to give with the entire process of Senate confirmation, not only as to Judges but now as to executive-branch officers. Judicial nominees refuse to answer questions about their views of the law because it may implicate a case that theoretically will come before them in the future. Cabinet nominees refuse to answer questions about their views of law and policy because it may implicate situations they will have to deal with and they do not want to prejudice their future inquiries and analysis. Either Senators have to refuse to confirm nominees who do not answer questions or we just turn this into a rubber-stamp for whomever the President wants to appoint.

egarber said...

it shall be a defense that such officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent did not know that the practices were unlawful and a person of ordinary sense and understanding would not know the practices were unlawful.

I can see how this might be stickier than it first appears -- at least with regard to highly placed civilian leaders.

Assume for this excercise that *I* am a person of ordinary sense and understanding (clearly debatable, for sure :) ). In one sense the basic calculus would involve whether I think unitary executive power trumps acts of Congress. In other words, it seems to me that a reasonable observer would read 1) current war crimes laws passed by Congress and 2) Supreme Court rulings like Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld (respecting the Geneva conventions) as leaning heavily toward the conclusion that waterboarding is indeed illegal "on paper." So is a baked internal legal justification to circumvent those rules -- based on expansive Article II power and limitless presidential signing statements -- enough to create a "reasonable" presumption of legality?

Obviously, it's more likely that an interrogator in the field is acting reasonably if he / she merely takes the immediate advice of superiors. They're not in a position to know about this larger debate. But the game is different if we're talking about the Sec of Defense, vice president, or the president himself.

In fact, I should ask if the president is even covered under the language -- that such officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent. He probably is, I'm thinking.

I'm not arguing that protecting the president is a legitimate reason to be slippery; I'm merely suggesting that it might be what's happening.

Sobek said...

The Democrat Congress has specifically authorized waterboarding:

http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1193857113.shtml

Granted, the link refers to waterboarding of U.S. soldiers, by U.S. personnel.

egarber said...

The Democrat Congress has specifically authorized waterboarding:

It's not a big leap of logic to see gigantic differences between resistance training and actual detainee treatment.

Waterboarding constitutes torture not because of the mere physical mechanics, but because the victim literally thinks he's being drowned. There is a clear mental component there -- the same as if I held an empty gun to a prisoner's head threatening to blow his head off. *I* know I won't do it -- but he certainly isn't sure.

Unless you're arguing that our soldiers literally fear for their lives during this training, in my view it's very inaccurate to label it "waterboarding" in the actual sense.

Sobek said...

"It's not a big leap of logic to see gigantic differences between resistance training and actual detainee treatment."

Yes it is. The point of waterboarding is to create a reflex response. You feel that regardless of whether you know the waterboarders are going to drown you. Either the reflex response is torture, or it is not. And if not, given that no one has accused the U.S. of actually drowning anyone, no detainee has been "tortured" by waterboarding any more than U.S. soldiers have been (with Congress' blessing).

Also interesting is that Senate Democrats are fighting the approval of Mukasey based on his refusal to call waterboarding torture, when even the Senate won't do so.

"Unless you're arguing that our soldiers literally fear for their lives during this training..."

Yes they do, because it's a reflex response. Makes no difference what they know about the situation.

egarber said...

Sobek,

I understand the point, but I think "torture" is defined in part by the actual circumstances and context. A soldier who volunteers to partake in aggressive resistance training is not in anything close to the same situation as an actual prisoner who knows nothing about his enemy's intent -- and who has no choice in the matter.

I think it would probably be considered "torture" or abuse generally under the Geneva rules if detainees were forced to say, run until they almost or actually vomited. But our soldiers go through something close to that in their training, right? Are those volunteer army cadets being "tortured", or are their human rights under the rules of war being violated? (I'm obviously not equating running with drowning, of course).

Further, I'd like more information about what kind of training is really happening. I've never heard my military friends talk about that kind of experience. So I'm somewhat skeptical of the claim.

Sobek said...

"A soldier who volunteers to partake in aggressive resistance training is not in anything close to the same situation as an actual prisoner who knows nothing about his enemy's intent -- and who has no choice in the matter."

Not the same exactly the same situation, no, but does that really matter? Pain is pain, right? We seem to agree that inflicting pain (or a reflexive panic reaction, as the case may be) can be morally justified in some cases. That being the case, it's not much of a stretch to allow waterboarding to get military intelligence to save our soldiers' lives.

"But our soldiers go through something close to that in their training, right?"

According to a scene in Band of Brothers, yes. And I don't have any personal experience, so I'll go with that.

"I think it would probably be considered 'torture' or abuse generally under the Geneva rules if detainees were forced to say, run until they almost or actually vomited."

I would disagree with you. And I say this as someone who really hates to run.

"Further, I'd like more information about what kind of training is really happening."

I don't know anything from personal experience either. But the conservative blogs I read are frequented by military folks, and they tell me some pretty messed up crap. Stuff like being sent into the wilderness with no clothes, told to evade their pursuers, and when they are (inevitably) caught, brutally beaten, starved, and otherwise mistreated. Ooh rah!

Sobek said...

"The only purpose in constantly referring to him as 'Judge' is to convey the impression that he's somehow more impartial..."

Please. Anyone here honestly think Antonin Scalia is impartial? Or Ruth Ginsburg? I think the impartiality ship sailed long ago.

egarber said...

That being the case, it's not much of a stretch to allow waterboarding to get military intelligence to save our soldiers' lives

Except that we were once the world's beacon for upholding the spirit and letter of the Geneva conventions. If we drop the bar and allow such abuse, we're failing in that mission. Therefore, for me, it comes down to the very different contexts at play in this comparison. Actual prisoner treatment is a completely separate legal ambit, complete with its own rules and framework.


I would disagree with you. And I say this as someone who really hates to run.

Common article 3 of the Geneva rules bans "cruel" treatment, and requires humane conditions. That appears to create room for my scenario. And btw, for the record, I ran 5 miles this morning :)

I guess the larger point I'm making is that the question isn't: "we inflict pain on our soldiers, so why shoudn't we do the same for those suspected of terrorist activity? Instead I think it's: "shouldn't we uphold the geneva conventions not only to lead the world, but also to guard against other states / actors inflicting that pain on our captured soldiers?"

Though I totally understand your logic, I think it conflates unrelated components.

Sobek said...

"Common article 3 of the Geneva rules bans 'cruel' treatment, and requires humane conditions."

A rule that doesn't state what it is banning is no rule at all. Is forced running "cruel"? Depends who you ask, I suppose. Everything about prison seems cruel to me, but it's obviously necessary and permissible. Is water-boarding inhumane? If it is, then it is regardless of who the victim is (again, because the panic is a reflex, so it makes no difference if the US soldier knows it's done by friendlies).

Is waterboarding torture? Well again, the Geneva Conventions aren't clear on that at all.

As I noted before, Congress could have made waterboarding illegal, and did not. The Dems control Congress, but will not. Apparently they understand the necessity of waterboarding in some cases. In 2004, Chuck Schumer said: "I think there are probably very few people in this room or in America who would say that torture should never ever be used, particularly if thousands of lives are at stake. ...It is easy to sit back in the armchair and say that torture can never be used, but when you are in the foxhole it is a very different deal. And I respect, I think we all respect the fact that the President is in the foxhole every day."

Note that he isn't even talking about waterboarding, he's talking about torture.

On September 26 of this year, Barak Obama said we cannot "have the president of the United States state as a matter of policy that there is a loophole or an exception where we would sanction torture." But then he gave himself a loophole, saying "there are going to be all sorts of hypotheticals, an emergency situation, and I will make that judgment at that time." So he won't rule it out, apparently accepting the necessity in some circumstances.

Bill Clinton: "We have a system of laws here where nobody should be above the law, and you don’t need blanket advance approval for blanket torture."

All quotes from Andrew McCarthy at National Review: http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGU0NjdkYWUxOGQ0NjI1ODA2NjRhYTlmOWUxODMzZTM=

egarber said...

Is waterboarding torture? Well again, the Geneva Conventions aren't clear on that at all.

Any group defending the high road (where I think *we* should be) likely considers it to be torture if inflicted on prisoners.


A rule that doesn't state what it is banning is no rule at all. Is forced running "cruel"? Depends who you ask, I suppose.

Again, if you're upholding the spirit of the conventions, an extreme version of this would in all likelihood be considered cruel and inhumane.


As I noted before, Congress could have made waterboarding illegal, and did not. The Dems control Congress, but will not. Apparently they understand the necessity of waterboarding in some cases.

I think this is somewhat of a logical fallacy. The McCain torture bill broadly prohibits torture** and cruelty, so on some level I think we're dealing with the Hamiltonian anti-Bill of Rights argument -- i.e., if we specify one tactic for a ban, we might implicitly be APPROVING others left silent as a matter of law.

**One acknowledged problem with my argument is that the McCain amendment relies on the Army Field manual as the guideline (I think). Problem there is that there are new classified parts we don't know about (I think that's still the case). Still, I don't think the lack of a specific law banning waterboarding implies approval, given my explanation above.

Have the democrats passed a law since 2006 banning say, lighting a prisoner on fire? If not, does that mean the corollary is that they favor the approach in certain circumstances? Seems more likely that the broad ban covers it -- along with waterboarding etc.

egarber said...

A rule that doesn't state what it is banning is no rule at all.

Well, consider the 8th Amendment:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Based on your logic, it would seem this isn't a rule at all -- since no specific "unusual punishments" are listed. That can't be right, can it?

Sobek said...

No, I don't think the Eighth Amendment is much of a rule because no one can agree one what it means. I do believe that it provides for a framework, under which rules can and should be made. Same with the First Amendment: what on earth is "the freedom of speech"? The Constitution doesn't say, so we need rules to come from elsewhere.

The Supreme Court acknowledges this when it strikes down statutes for vagueness, because no one knows how to conform their actions to the rule.

路傑 said...

免費A片, ut聊天室, AV女優, 美女視訊, 免費成人影片, 成人論壇, 情色交友, 免費AV, 線上a片, 日本美女寫真集, 同志聊天室, 聊天室交友, 成人文章, 成人圖片區, 色情網站, 辣妹視訊, 美女交友, 微風成人區, 色美媚部落格, 色情影片, 成人影片, 成人網站, 免費A片, 上班族聊天室, A片,H漫, 18成人, a漫, av dvd, 一夜情聊天室, 微風成人, 成人圖片, 成人漫畫, 情色網, 日本A片, 免費A片下載, 性愛, 成人交友, 嘟嘟成人網, 嘟嘟成人網, 成人貼圖, 成人電影, 成人, 中部人聊天室, 080中部人聊天室, 成人貼圖, 成人小說, 成人文章, 成人圖片區, 免費成人影片, 成人遊戲, 微風成人, 愛情公寓, 成人電影, A片, 情色, 情色貼圖, 情色文學, 做愛, 成人遊戲, 成人影城, 色情聊天室, 色情小說, 一葉情貼圖片區, 情色小說, 色情, 寄情築園小遊戲, 色情遊戲, 成人網站, 麗的色遊戲, 色情網站, 成人論壇, 情色視訊, 情色電影, aio交友愛情館, 言情小說, 愛情小說, 色情A片, 情色論壇, 自拍, 癡漢, , 俱樂部, 豆豆聊天室, 聊天室, 色情影片, 視訊聊天室, 免費視訊聊天, 免費視訊, 視訊交友90739 情人視訊網影音視訊聊天室 免費視訊聊天室 視訊聊天 視訊交友 美女視訊 視訊美女 視訊 免費視訊 免費視訊聊天 視訊聊天室 辣妹視訊 一夜情 色情a片 aio交友愛情館 情色電影 情色視訊 色情遊戲 色情 情色小說 一葉情貼圖片區 色情小說 色情聊天室 情色交友 成人論壇 成人網站 色情網站 情色論壇 小高聊天室 女同志聊天室 6K聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080聊天室 聊天室尋夢園 UT男同志聊天室 男同志聊天室 尋夢園聊天室 UT聊天室 聊天室 豆豆聊天室 A片 成人電影 成人貼圖 嘟嘟成人網 美女交友 本土自拍 成人交友 成人影片http://ssff01.3b8mm.com/

kutyhgvd said...

I am so happy to get some hero gold and the hero online gold is given by my close friend who tells me that the hero online money is the basis to enter into the game. Therefore, I should buy hero gold with the spare money and I gain some hero money from other players.

. said...

酒店喝酒,禮服店,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,制服店,便服店,鋼琴酒吧,兼差,酒店兼差,酒店打工,伴唱小姐,暑假打工,酒店上班,日式酒店,舞廳,ktv酒店,酒店,酒店公關,酒店小姐,理容院,日領,龍亨,學生兼差,酒店兼差,酒店上班,酒店打工,禮服酒店,禮服店,酒店小姐,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,經紀 彩色爆米花,經紀人 彩色爆米花,酒店傳播,酒店經紀 彩色爆米花,爆米花,童裝,童裝拍賣,童裝大盤,童裝寄賣,童裝批貨,酒店,酒店,童裝切貨,酒店,GAP童裝,酒店,酒店 ,禮服店 , 酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,招待所,

googlo-2 said...

牙醫,植牙,假牙|矯正|牙周病,牙醫診所植牙,紋身,刺青,創業,批發,TATTOO,皮膚科,痘痘,雷射脈衝光除斑,洗包包|洗鞋子|清洗包包,中醫,腫瘤,腎臟病,僵直性脊椎炎,飛梭雷射,肉毒桿菌,玻尿酸,痘痘,脈衝光,醫美,毛孔粗大,醫學美容,seo,關鍵字行銷,關鍵字自然排序,網路行銷,關鍵字自然排序,關鍵字行銷seo,關鍵字廣告,網路行銷,seo,關鍵字行銷,關鍵字廣告,關鍵字,自然排序,部落格行銷,網路行銷,網路爆紅,牛舌餅,婚紗,台中婚紗

peter.w said...

塑料托盘,塑料栈板 四川塑料托盘,塑料栈板 成都塑料托盘,塑料栈板 自贡塑料托盘,塑料栈板 攀枝花塑料托盘,塑料栈板 泸州塑料托盘,塑料栈板 德阳塑料托盘,塑料栈板 绵阳塑料托盘,塑料栈板 广元塑料托盘,塑料栈板 遂宁塑料托盘,塑料栈板 内江塑料托盘,塑料栈板 乐山塑料托盘,塑料栈板 南充塑料托盘,塑料栈板 宜宾塑料托盘,塑料栈板 广安塑料托盘,塑料栈板 达州塑料托盘,塑料栈板 仓储货架|仓库货架|托盘|仓储笼 仓储货架|仓库货架|托盘|仓储笼 仓储货架|仓库货架|托盘|仓储笼 仓储货架|仓库货架|托盘|仓储笼 轻型仓储货架|轻量型仓库货架|库房货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 中量型仓储货架|中量A型仓库货架|库房货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 中量型仓储货架|中量B型仓库货架|库房货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 横梁式仓库货架|重型仓储货架|货位式库房货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 模具货架|抽屉式仓库货架|仓储货架|库房货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 贯通式仓储货架|通廊式仓库货架|驶入式库房货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 悬臂式仓储货架|仓库货架|库房货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 阁楼式仓储货架|仓库货架|库房货架|钢平台 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 流利式仓储货架|仓库货架|库房货架|辊轮式货架|自滑式货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架 工作台|工作桌 工具柜|工具车 托盘|塑料托盘|钢托盘|铁托盘|钢制托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼|蝴蝶笼 周转箱|塑料周转箱 静音手推车|铁板手推车|购物手推车|登高车 手动液压托盘搬运车|不锈钢搬运车|电子秤搬运车 高起升搬运车|电动搬运车|平台车 手动液压堆高车|手动液压堆垛车|半电动堆垛车 全电动堆垛车|油桶搬运车|圆桶搬运车|油桶装卸车| 柴油内燃平衡重式叉车|电动平衡重式叉车 液压升降机|剪叉式高空作业平台|固定式蹬车桥 文件柜 不锈钢制品 零件盒|零件柜 折叠式仓储笼|仓库笼 钢托盘 钢制料箱 堆垛架 物流台车 手推车 钢托盘 折叠式仓储笼|仓库笼 折叠式仓储笼|仓库笼 钢托盘|钢制托盘|铁托盘|金属托盘|镀锌托盘 堆垛架|巧固架 钢制料箱 物流台车|载物台车 手推车|静音手推车 手推车|静音手推车 仓储笼|钢托盘|钢制料箱|堆垛架|物流台车|手推车 仓储笼|钢托盘 仓储笼 仓库货架|中量A型货架 仓储货架|中量B型货架 库房货架|横梁式货架 塑料托盘|栈板 钢托盘|钢制托盘 折叠式仓储笼|仓库笼 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼 托盘|钢托盘 托盘|塑料托盘 周转箱|塑料周转箱 托盘|纸托盘 料箱|钢制料箱 工具柜|工具车|抽屉柜 工作台|工作桌 刀具柜|刀具车|刀具架 手动液压托盘搬运车|电动托盘搬运车 手动液压堆高车|手动叉车 仓储笼 仓库笼 南京仓储笼 常州仓储笼 无锡仓储笼 苏州仓储笼 徐州仓储笼 南通仓储笼 镇江仓储笼 连云港仓储笼 泰州仓储笼 扬州仓储笼 盐城仓储笼 淮安仓储笼 宿迁仓储笼 轻量型货架|角钢货架 中量A型货架 中量B型货架 货位式货架 横梁式货架 阁楼式货架|钢平台 悬臂式货架 贯通式货架|通廊式货架|驶入式货架 辊轮式货架|流利条货架 压入式货架 移动式货架|密集架 模具货架 抽屉式货架 汽车4S店货架 汽配库货架 自动化立体仓库货架 托盘|钢托盘|钢制托盘 托盘|塑料托盘 托盘|塑料托盘 托盘|塑料托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼 手推车|铁板手推车 手推车|静音手推车 置物架|工业置物架|家用置物架 堆垛架|巧固架 挂板架|物料整理架 登高车 物流台车|载物台车 料箱|钢制料箱 搬运车|手动液压托盘搬运车|电动托盘搬运车 堆高机|堆垛机|手动堆高机|电动堆高机 叉车|电动叉车|内燃叉车|叉车厂 货架 货架 仓储货架 仓储货架 仓库货架 仓库货架 货架厂 货架厂 货架公司 货架公司 托盘 钢托盘 铁托盘 钢制托盘 塑料托盘 仓储笼 仓库笼 折叠式仓储笼 折叠仓储笼 仓储货架|仓库货架|库房货架 南京货架|横梁式货架|中型货架 钢托盘|塑料托盘|纸托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼 钢制料箱|工具柜|工作台 手动液压托盘搬运车|手动液压堆高车 仓库货架|中量A型货架> 仓储货架|横梁式货架|货位式货架 托盘|塑料托盘|钢制托盘|纸托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼|蝴蝶笼|储物笼 手动液压托盘搬运车|手动液压堆高车 仓库货架|中量A型货架 仓储货架|横梁式货架|货位式货架 托盘|塑料托盘|钢制托盘|纸托盘 仓储笼|折叠式仓储笼|仓库笼|蝴蝶笼|储物笼 手动液压托盘搬运车|手动液压堆高车 仓储货架|仓库货架|库房货架 南京货架|中型货架|横梁式货架 钢托盘|钢制托盘|塑料托盘|纸托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼 钢制料箱|工具柜|工作台 手动液压托盘搬运车|手动液压堆高车 仓库货架|中量A型货架 仓储货架|中量B型货架 库房货架|横梁式货架|货位式货架 钢托盘|钢制托盘|铁托盘|栈板 托盘|塑料托盘|栈板 纸托盘|栈板 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼|蝴蝶笼|储物笼 钢制料箱|钢制周转箱|网格式料箱 搬运车|手动液压托盘搬运车|电动托盘搬运车 仓库货架|中量A型货架 仓储货架|中量B型货架 库房货架|横梁式货架|货位式货架 钢托盘|钢制托盘|铁托盘|栈板 塑料托盘|塑料栈板 纸托盘|栈板 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼|蝴蝶笼|储物笼 钢制料箱|钢质周转箱|网格式料箱 手动液压托盘搬运车|液压搬运车 仓储货架|>仓库货架|库房货架 南京货架|中型货架|横梁式货架 钢托盘|钢制托盘|塑料托盘|纸托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼 钢制料箱|工具柜|工作台 手动液压托盘搬运车|手动液压堆高车 仓库货架|中量A型货架 仓储货架|中量B型货架 库房货架|横梁式货架|货位式货架 钢托盘|钢制托盘|铁托盘|栈板 塑料托盘|塑料栈板 纸托盘|栈板 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼|蝴蝶笼|储物笼 钢制料箱|钢质周转箱|网格式料箱 手动液压托盘搬运车|托盘搬运车 货架|仓储货架|仓库货架|库房货架 南京货架|上海货架|北京货架 轻型货架|中型货架|搁板式货架 重型货架|横梁式货架|托盘式货架 托盘|木托盘|纸托盘|木塑托盘 托盘|钢托盘|塑料托盘|钢制托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼 手推车|静音手推车|铁板手推车 物料架|整理架|挂板架 料箱|钢制料箱|钢制周转箱|网格式料箱 手动液压托盘搬运车|电动托盘搬运车 手动液压堆高车|半电动堆高车|手动叉车 塑料周转箱|物流箱|塑料化工桶|塑料卡板箱 工具柜|上海工具柜|南京工具柜|抽屉柜 工作台|工作桌|南京工作台|上海工作台 刀具车|刀具柜|刀具架|刀具座 货架 货架厂 货架公司 仓储货架 仓库货架 库房货架 南京货架 上海货架 托盘 钢托盘 钢制托盘 货架|轻量型货架|角钢货架 货架|中量型货架|次重型货架 货位式货架|横梁式货架|重量型货架 仓储货架|阁楼式货架|钢平台 仓储货架|悬臂式货架 仓储货架|贯通式货架|通廊式货架|驶入式货架 仓库货架|库房货架|抽屉式货架|模具货架 仓库货架|库房货架|汽车4S店货架|汽配库货架 货架厂|货架公司|南京货架|上海货架|无锡货架|苏州货架 货架厂|货架公司|北京货架|天津货架|沈阳货架|大连货架 货架厂|货架公司|广州货架|深圳货架|杭州货架 托盘|钢托盘|钢制托盘 托盘|塑料托盘 仓储笼|仓库笼|折叠式仓储笼 置物架|多功能置物架|卫浴置物架 料箱|钢制料箱|钢制周转箱 手动液压托盘搬运车|不锈钢托盘搬运车|电动托盘搬运车 手动液压堆高车|半电动堆高车|电动堆高车|堆垛车 货架 仓储货架 仓库货架 货架厂 货架公司 托盘 钢托盘 铁托盘 钢制托盘 塑料托盘 仓储笼 仓库笼 折叠式仓储笼 折叠仓储笼 货架 货架 货架 仓储货架 仓储货架 仓储货架 仓库货架 仓库货架 货架厂 货架厂 货架公司 货架公司 托盘 钢托盘 铁托盘 钢制托盘 塑料托盘 仓储笼 仓库笼 折叠式仓储笼 货架 货架 货架 仓储货架 仓储货架 仓储货架 仓库货架 仓库货架 仓库货架 货架厂 货架厂 货架厂 货架公司 货架公司 货架公司 托盘 钢托盘 铁托盘 钢制托盘 塑料托盘 仓储笼 仓库笼 折叠式仓储笼 折叠仓储笼 托盘 塑料托盘 钢托盘 钢制托盘 铁托盘 货架厂 仓储笼 仓库笼 折叠式仓储笼 折叠仓储笼 南京货架 货架公司 货架厂 仓库货架 仓储货架 货架 货架

. said...

酒店喝酒,禮服店,酒店小姐,制服店,便服店,鋼琴酒吧,兼差,酒店兼差,酒店打工,伴唱小姐,暑假打工,酒店上班,日式酒店,ktv酒店,酒店,酒店公關,酒店小姐,酒店兼差,酒店上班,酒店打工,禮服酒店,禮服店,酒店小姐,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,台北酒店,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,禮服店 ,酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店小姐,經紀 彩色爆米花,經紀人 彩色爆米花,酒店傳播,酒店經紀 彩色爆米花,爆米花,童裝,童裝拍賣,童裝大盤,童裝寄賣,童裝批貨,酒店,酒店,童裝切貨,酒店,GAP童裝,酒店,酒店 ,禮服店 , 酒店小姐,酒店經紀,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,招待所,酒店小姐,酒店兼差,寒暑假打工,酒店上班,暑假打工,酒店公關,酒店兼職,酒店經紀

㊣美樂蒂melody咩咩㊣ said...

海綿寶寶小遊戲,視訊美女,海綿寶寶,微整型美容,笑話大全,酒店經紀,,星座運勢,曼雪兒免費小說,十二

星座
,視訊聊天室,星座配對,愛情配對,酒店經紀,愛情運勢,視訊聊天,情色文學,

瘦小腹
,瘦腿,瘦身餐,酒店經紀,笑話,網頁設計,網站設計,酒店兼職,ktv酒店,酒店兼職,兼差打工,酒店上班,酒店經紀,酒店小姐,ktv酒店,兼差打工,酒店上班,酒店經紀,酒店小姐,ktv酒店,酒店兼職,兼差打工,酒店上班,酒店小姐,酒店公關,ktv酒店,酒店兼職,兼差打工,酒店上班,酒店小姐,ktv酒店,酒店兼職,兼差打工,酒店上班,酒店小姐,酒店公關,異性緣

wsty said...

www.eshooes.com .
www.pumafr.com.
www.myshoess.com.

www.eshooes.com .
www.pumafr.com.
www.myshoess.com.
[url=http://www.pumafr.com]puma shoes[/url]
[url=http://www.eshooes.com]chaussures puma[/url]
[url=http://www.myshoess.com]nike air max ltd[/url]

freefun0616 said...

酒店經紀人, 菲梵酒店經紀, 酒店經紀, 禮服酒店上班, 酒店小姐兼職, 便服酒店經紀, 酒店打工經紀, 制服酒店工作, 專業酒店經紀, 合法酒店經紀, 酒店暑假打工, 酒店寒假打工, 酒店經紀人, 菲梵酒店經紀, 酒店經紀, 禮服酒店上班, 酒店經紀人, 菲梵酒店經紀, 酒店經紀, 禮服酒店上班, 酒店小姐兼職, 便服酒店工作, 酒店打工經紀, 制服酒店經紀, 專業酒店經紀, 合法酒店經紀, 酒店暑假打工, 酒店寒假打工, 酒店經紀人, 菲梵酒店經紀, 酒店經紀, 禮服酒店上班, 酒店小姐兼職, 便服酒店工作, 酒店打工經紀, 制服酒店經紀,,

Violet said...

牙醫,植牙,矯正,矯正牙齒,皮膚科,痘痘,中醫,飛梭雷射,毛孔粗大,醫學美容,痘痘,seo,關鍵字行銷,自然排序,網路行銷,自然排序,關鍵字行銷seo,部落格行銷,網路行銷,seo,關鍵字行銷,自然排序,部落格行銷,網路行銷,牛舌餅婚紗台中婚紗,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭

Violet said...

高雄婚紗,街舞,小產,雞精,性感,辣妹,雷射溶脂,雙下巴,抽脂,瘦小腹,微晶瓷,電波拉皮,淨膚雷射,清潔公司,居家清潔,牙周病,牙齒矯正,植牙,牙周病,矯正,植牙

2012天氣晴朗 said...

牙醫,植牙,矯正,矯正牙齒,皮膚科,痘痘,中醫,飛梭雷射,毛孔粗大,醫學美容,痘痘,seo,關鍵字行銷,自然排序,網路行銷,自然排序,關鍵字行銷seo,部落格行銷,網路行銷,seo,關鍵字行銷,自然排序,部落格行銷,網路行銷,牛舌餅婚紗台中婚紗,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,腳臭,街舞,小產,雞精,性感,辣妹,雷射溶脂,雙下巴,抽脂,瘦小腹,微晶瓷,電波拉皮,淨膚雷射,清潔公司,居家清潔,牙周病,牙齒矯正,植牙,牙周病,矯正,植牙

hangeng said...

Zahlreiche verschiedene glitzernden pandora schmuck sabo schmuck wird vor der ganzen Welt verwechselt Chaos. Und die ganze thomas sabo onlineshop Welt von der Industrie zusammengesetzt ist, bezogen auf Kultur, es ist die Differenz zwischen classes.For thomas sabo armketten Teil des Schmucks Unternehmen, acrosspandora Industrien, sabo uhren die Grenzen der Pandora Armbändern zu verwirklichen, sah die Augen thomas sabo online shop deutschland außen ist ein kreativer Wert auf neue Ideen. ohrringe creolen Die Schmuck-Industrie muss auf andere Branchen, die Allianz zu realisieren.Diese Tendenz wurde vorgelegt. thomas szabo Solche als touristische Souvenirs, Schmuckläden mobilepandora Telefon angebote thomas sabo ohrschmuck Industrie, Bekleidungsindustrie, hochwertigen Schreibwaren-Industrie, auch einige elektronische Geräte. Dies thomas sabo ist eine gute Idee, wenn die Bedingungen, mit kräftigen, schwach ist, oder die schwachen schwachen Spiel wahrscheinlich überraschendste schmuck thomas sabo ketten Ergebnis zu erhalten. Um jedoch die Marktstudie und Machbarkeit, zu stärken und die Aufmerksamkeit Markt, um Tracking-Stamm. Power-and-power Union sollte sicher sein, die pandora deutschland Reize, vor allem die internationale Marke der Zusammenarbeit.

yantingwho said...

雲朵籠罩的全套夏日清晨。天空仍是淡淡的鴿灰傳播小姐 ,徐徐的微風拂過指尖炮友,是薄荷的清涼。忽然聽到一聲沈悶轟響,我皺皺眉,接著水汽味道便直湧鼻腔援留言板。我捋了捋散落的頭發援魚,瞇著眼睛看天空被朝霞援-交line塗成胭脂的薄雲。一起出去吧。

我們來到了台南一夜情 海邊,在長椅上坐了下來。雨一夜情留言板安然地落下,滴在傘上外約,繚繞起天籟之音貓都魚訊 ,滴滴答答。雨安然地落下指油壓,跌入海洋,傳播妹濺起晶瑩的水花,茶訊羞羞答答。

yantingwho said...

魚訊論壇 思念是寄思於念,揮不去的影子充溢思想,因為援-交line 妳已占領我的思想,叫小姐 使我不能自控,無法理會其他,念到的也只是妳約砲網 的名字以及妳的點點滴滴,兼職援 因為我的思想已容不下其他的人和事了。